SPEAKER_00: 0:00

So it is one of those projects which is impossible to um to budget for. We also had to do elevators. We have 12 elevators. At least with elevators, I knew that uh uh we could negotiate 12 elevators. You cannot negotiate on a facade project because you have no idea how much damage is up on the 23rd floor or on the 20th floor.

SPEAKER_03: 0:23

Plus, with each project, you get a team of, as you said, soft costs, which includes um you know, engineers, uh project managers, and and the like. And and it's it and at least with the facade, my experience has been it feels like when you're done with one cycle, the next one's right around the corner.

SPEAKER_02: 0:44

This is the Co-op and Condo Insider, the podcast dedicated to New York's cooperative and condominium community. This is your trusted store for the latest insights, strategies, and stories shaping the world of shared housing. You will hear from the people who are leaders in this community. Information and insights you will not hear anywhere else. If you want to stay ahead of the curve, you're in the right place. The views and opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of the host or any affiliated individuals or organizations.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14

Hello and welcome to the co-op and condo insider, where we explore the real-world issues facing co-op and condo communities across New York City with insight, expertise, and a healthy dose of straight talk. I'm your host, Jeffrey Mazell. I'm a co-op attorney and legal advisor to the President's Co-op and Condo Council. I'm thrilled to be joined by Mike Hulk, co-host as always, Richard Solomon, a seasoned voice in public radio for over 20 years. Richard has taken his listeners around the world to meet experts, newsmakers, and the people making a real difference in our everyday lives. Richard, great to have you on the mic with us today.

SPEAKER_01: 1:54

We're getting phenomenal feedback. So it's it's great. It's great stuff, great content.

SPEAKER_03: 2:00

And today we have another great guest, Igor Olberman. Igor is not in Queens, so we we're moving over to Brooklyn. We're moving up in the world. And Igor, welcome to the show, and we look forward to an interesting chat with you today.

SPEAKER_00: 2:13

Thank you for the welcome and greetings from Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_03: 2:16

Okay. Igor is the general manager at Trump Village West, and you have an interesting background. Tell us your journey uh and your relationship with the Trump Village West complex and how you became the general manager. It's not a straight line by any means.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33

In a city of a million stories, this is my story. So I immigrated to the United States when I was eight years old, uh, to Brooklyn. Uh Brian Beach Boy uh pretty much all my life went to Abraham Lincoln High School, then to uh Brooklyn College, and then I went to uh New York Law School because they had a very high concentration in real estate um classes. Uh I then became an attorney uh specializing in real estate, wound up working for New York City as an administrative law judge for an agency called the Environmental Control Board, which is now Oath, Office of Administrative Trials and Hearings, was promoted to be uh an appellate-level uh administrative law judge, uh so worked there for a couple of years. Um, decided to buy a co-op in a complex known as Trump Village West, got on the board, became the board president, and then I decided that it was just uh too much of a haul uh for a volunteer position. Decided that I would uh sell and leave. Uh, but the board came to me and asked me to stay. And as of June of this year, it's been uh my pleasure and honor to be the general manager of Trump Village for 10 years.

SPEAKER_03: 4:00

And when were you on the board? How many years ago was that?

SPEAKER_00: 4:03

So my journey with Trump Village has been a total of 15, five as a as a resident and board member, and uh 10 years as the general manager.

SPEAKER_03: 4:12

I I would have to think being an administrative law judge for the ECB must be a tremendous advantage in your role as general manager and in operating the property.

SPEAKER_00: 4:24

Well, uh as the saying goes, I know how the sausage is made, and it ain't it ain't pretty.

SPEAKER_01: 4:30

I I regularly appear before ECB oath, so who knows if we were uh you know entangled at some point in the past.

SPEAKER_00: 4:40

Entangled is an understatement when it comes with some of the regulations uh that uh that the city of New York enforces.

SPEAKER_03: 4:47

So normally when I meet a lawyer that doesn't practice, I I usually congratulate him and I I I usually refer to him as a genius. But you stepped into property management, so it it might be a parallel move in terms of insanity and stress.

SPEAKER_00: 5:05

Well, I got into uh property management really even before my uh career as an attorney. Uh as an immigrant, my parents uh uh asked for help in filling out how do you do the multiple dwelling registration. So I kind of uh got into the position of property manager and had a concentration as a dirt lawyer or a real estate lawyer, simply trying to help my immigrant parents uh navigate uh the system. And they didn't have the language or ability to do that. So that's how I started. Um, between the paperwork and helping them take out the garbage. Uh my first closing, I attended when I was 15 years old, and um uh I've been involved in real estate ever since.

SPEAKER_03: 5:49

So tell us about Trump Village West. Uh you know, give us an overview. I know it's a significant complex, its size, its structure, some characteristics of it.

SPEAKER_00: 5:58

So the comp the complex was built by Fred Trump and uh the CO was from 1963. So we'll say it's their birth certificate is from '63. Uh, it is a uh two-tower complex that consists of 1,144 apartments. It has approximately 750 outdoor parking spots. Um, the budget is approximately$15 million a year. And when we do capital renovation projects, that tax on two to three million dollars a year to to the budget. So it's a very large project. Uh it's a city on a street, and um it's um it's a tremendous uh undertaking to be able to uh to guide it.

SPEAKER_03: 6:46

How many stories is each building? Uh each tower is 23 stories. And it's so there are over 500 units in each building. 572. So those are very large buildings.

SPEAKER_00: 6:58

Very large buildings. It's on about 10 acres of land. Uh we are two blocks away from the ocean. Uh, we're, if you're trying to peg where we are in Brooklyn, we are on the same block as the aquarium where they have the shark tank. And um uh we are close to the ocean. And when Hurricane Sandy came, the ocean came to visit us. And uh where I'm currently sitting, uh, which is the management office, I would be under four feet of water. So it was um it was quite an experience.

SPEAKER_03: 7:31

So let's uh let's start with uh sort of issues that we've asked many managers, board members, uh, and the like. Uh what what issues keep you up at night as as the person in charge of liter literally a small village with respect to unfunded mandates, uh local law 97, facade requirements, elevator regulations, energy rules, and the like. So give us give us an idea how you guys are doing with these issues and and what's problematic, and you know, what would you like to see changed if if possible?

SPEAKER_00: 8:12

Well, I I think that as in any co-op or condo, uh the key that uh keeps you up at night is the budget and the ability to uh to be able to fund uh daily operations. Um what winds up happening is that when you get a new regulation or mandate that you have to comply with, you then have to sit with pencil paper and figure out how exactly you're going to uh meet those uh mandates. Um and there's been uh quite a bit of uh what I would say core shifting from uh from what is expected from government services to what is expected on uh building-wide services, such as compost regulations, which are uh looks like are reawakening it again with uh with the a band-aid going into effect next year. So um all of the different um um rules that city council likes to put into effect uh get uh get a headline, uh but uh the co-op is ultimately left with uh paying the costs of uh those uh uh nice regulations which are adopted.

SPEAKER_03: 9:29

Right. For example, uh what's it uh Local Law 11, the facade requirements really came about, my understanding is you know, one per m one case, one accident. And it is um it is blossomed into a multi-billion dollar industry uh with the cost borne by property owners, including co-ops in the city of New York.

SPEAKER_00: 9:54

So what you have with uh the facade work, uh local law 11, is you impossible to budget for since it requires an examination of every single brick uh on the facade. It requires an examination of the balconies, it requires examination of the the concrete eyebrows on on our complex. And it was impossible to budget to. You can only do your best to try to estimate how many bricks are going to be broken on a 60-year-old building, but uh that is uh just uh a task for fortune tellers instead of trying to properly budget for it. Um, you have uh scaffolding, which costs a fortune to be able to uh install and then uh maintain. Uh we're not even dealing with the uh the architectural costs of having to do permit renewals and uh uh having the architects come out with uh your contractor to go on the actual vertical scaffolds and see how much repairs need to be made. So it is one of those projects which is impossible to um to budget for. We also had to do elevators. We have 12 elevators, at least with elevators. I knew that uh uh we could negotiate 12 elevators. You cannot negotiate on a facade project because you have no idea how much damage is up on the 23rd floor or on the 20th floor.

SPEAKER_03: 11:22

Plus, with each project, you get a team of, as you said, soft costs, which includes um you know, engineers, uh project managers, and and the like. And and it's it and at least with the facade, my experience has been it feels like when you're done with one cycle, the next one's right around the corner.

SPEAKER_00: 11:43

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. As soon as you're uh we had a delay with uh COVID as well. So uh during our project, we had a deadline to, you know, that we were trying to meet. Uh the first set of the architect got office was closed down, they got all sick with COVID. Then we had the contractors got sick with COVID, and uh we were on uh Zoom with Department of Buildings and them yelling at us, you know, to move and hurry up. And I asked them question, how do I do this? Uh if uh everybody's sick. And uh, how do you meet a uh deadline um that is that is this hard to meet? We met it and uh it was it was hard, but uh it is a project that that is next to impossible to uh to do any kind of budget for on uh on a project such as ours. And are you self-managed or you have uh so the way that uh the uh the building is run is um the management office, myself and some other staff are direct employees of uh the corporation, and uh we wouldn't be able to obviously run um such a large enterprise by ourselves. So we have wonderful third-party vendors that we use. Uh Douglas Solomon helps me me out and the complex uh to make sure that our accounts payables and accounts receivables come in and they are the backbone of uh the back office operation for the complex. So it's like a it's like a hybrid. Uh it's a hybrid for sure. Uh but you have to think outside of the box when you're trying to manage uh a complex of uh 1200 units. It's it's kind of um um easy to manage. I wouldn't say easy, but I say there's options available to manage buildings that are 50 to 100 units. Um, but once you put in any kind of uh scale that is above 500 units, you're going to have a very hard time in New York City finding any management companies that even have the capacity to be able to take on uh such a large uh amount of residents and and uh uh vendors. So we're very fortunate to be able to work with Douglas Solomon on uh on a hybrid uh um uh basis.

SPEAKER_03: 14:15

So you you you you have an uh an office, obviously, on site. Yeah, we fully staffed.

SPEAKER_00: 14:20

Fully staffed. We have an office on site. We have uh uh maintenance department with two supervisors and approximately 25 union employees uh on site. It's a 24-hour building. Uh pipes burst, they don't care if it's your day off. Um fires seem to always happen uh on uh the most unexpected circumstances at times. So it is um it's a mini-city. We have our with a third-party vendor, we have uh security uh force, uh we have uh, like I said, our maintenance department, and obviously we have other uh professionals that help us out uh dealing with uh New York City, New York State, uh uh tax filings and the like.

SPEAKER_03: 15:04

So you said before we started recording that uh that that it's a real neighborhood. Uh Trump Village is a real neighborhood. Tell us about the people there. You know, it's multi-generational and give us some some flavor as to the shareholder life there.

SPEAKER_00: 15:21

So the the buildings are, as I said, opened up in 63. We still have some uh original tenants that moved in on day one that are still here. In fact, I would say though, although this was built as a Michelama and became private in approximately 2007, uh, we have 50% of the residents uh still uh are the former Michelama owners. Um, and we have a lot of uh their children who are coming back here to buy apartments and live with their um with their with their folks. Uh and one of the most uh fascinating things that I found, didn't know before I moved in to the building, is that you have certain floors because we have three-bedroom, two-bedroom, and one-bedroom apartments where you will literally have three generations of family. You will have the grandparents, the parents, and uh the children there all living on the same floor, shuffling uh in, you know, between um holidays. It makes it easier, uh, makes it easier. Thanksgiving just happened. So that that's that's just interesting to watch how uh generations of folks live on one floor. Um and the complex, it's really uh the power of it is of its size that you will have um folks who young professionals who moved out of uh the buildings, uh, got married and are coming back because our complex welfare, if you have your grandparents, here are parents, they have uh the built-in babysitting. So in the mornings, you'll see young professionals dressed in their suits and ties, and uh they'll have a briefcase on one hand and they'll have a toddler on the other, and you'll have a grandma and her moo and slippers uh meet them if they don't live on the same floor, you know, on the first floor, and they'll take their grandchild, and uh one goes to work and one goes to uh the playground.

SPEAKER_03: 17:26

So that that that is a win-win. You you you have the best babysitter in the world, and and and you just saved probably hundreds, tens of thousands of dollars a year.

SPEAKER_00: 17:37

So uh win-win. Yeah, it's a win. It's a very uh I think that's the the strongest draw of uh having a complex of the size is that you have the these generations of folks who you have um uh you don't need to even uh a lot of the apartments that are sold uh in the complex uh are not even listed. Uh because you will have uh uh somebody go to a broker and say, if you've this apartment be if an apartment becomes available on this floor or within the next couple of floors, let me know. And a lot of the sales happen because folks want to live next to their family members. Um, so it's uh it's a tremendous um draw to this particular complex, which is just uh built-in and it's it's I know that uh the folks out there uh uh looking at apartments and they're like, well, does this uh is there a gym? We do not have a gym, but we have the opportunity for you to to be next to grandma and your folks, and that's a much stronger draw. And uh we're seeing it in sales that uh even when uh the market is supposed to be uh supposed to be not as favorable, we still have a tremendous amount of sales, and it's the reason why people want to live next to our family members.

SPEAKER_03: 18:58

I I will say uh as a co-op and condo practitioner, and I'm familiar with you know literally dozens and dozens of projects. That's that's the first time I've heard that. I've heard places used to be like that, but not anymore. So that that that's really nice to hear. So you mentioned um that the buildings converted uh from Mitchell Lama. Is it still is it Mitchellama? Yeah, is it a free market?

SPEAKER_00: 19:27

No, no, they can this is uh a fully uh uh free market uh uh complex. It uh was one of the first complexes to leave uh the Michelama program before the New York State Attorney General's office just made the regulations next to impossible for complexes to leave. So it's a hundred percent uh uh free market at this point. There's no there's no regulations at all. Uh and and and and when did that happen? Uh 2007. And were you involved with that at all? Were you there yet? I was not. Because I was not, I didn't when uh when this complex became free market, that's when it even became on my right radar as an opportunity to buy uh to buy uh into the complex. Uh uh so I became uh shareholder in early 2008.

SPEAKER_03: 20:18

Oh, so you so you bought right after the conversion.

SPEAKER_00: 20:20

Yeah, I bought, I wanted to be in the neighborhood. My parents uh still uh God bless are uh uh not too far away. I wanted to be uh uh close to them, and uh I thought that the complex, which has a beach two blocks away and subway a block away, and has a school across the street, is was just a tremendous opportunity.

SPEAKER_03: 20:43

So um the name is Trump Village West, and uh you you have the Trump branding, which I guess comes with certain uh unusual responses or usual responses from people uh both in the public and in the government. Can you discuss what challenges you've had having a building that includes the Trump name in it? And what is Trump's relation, I guess the president's relation with the complex now or ever.

SPEAKER_00: 21:16

So um the complex name when I bought in was not a hot topic. It only became obviously a hot topic when he started running uh for uh for president um uh the the first time, first time around. Um it's unfortunate that the response that you get uh having a complex associated with uh uh uh a national global figure that's loved by some, hated by others. And in New York, it seems to be more hated by a lot more folks than than loved. Uh the problems that we have as well, our logo on our clothes. Well, it's great, but uh I certainly don't wear it when I leave uh and go take the subway. I I had uh I figured out that it was my logo when I was uh going down to 141 Livingston Street, one of my least favorite places, which is the Landlord Tenant Court in Kings County. And I had people just staring at me and I couldn't understand why they were staring at. I thought maybe maybe I spilled something, or maybe uh and then I realized, oh, they were staring at my shirt. And uh although I have Trump Village West on it, uh I got dirty looks. Don't wear it on the subway anymore. Uh, for the residents here, when uh we have a Trump Village West sticker for their parking for their windshield, we had to change that sticker around because uh some complained that they got uh their cars vandalized. So we literally had to change the stickers, parking stickers with the the associated parking spot number to instead of Trump Village West to Trump, you know, TVW, which was which was something that was not on my radar uh to do. But what's really shocking is the way that uh uh you have agencies uh deal with with you for some reason, and it could be coincidence, although I don't believe in coincidences. We get audited randomly. Uh we uh try to um settle our tax sortiori uh as any complex. We try to lower our real estate taxes, and we thought we were going to have an agreement uh with the Department of Finance, and that when we were getting close, we were told that DOF is not going to settle with the Trump organization. And we could stand and on our heads until we were blue. We were not able to resolve our tax sortiory issues, and we had to go to a full trial. So it's uh it's surprising uh that uh you have to deal with a set of issues uh that certainly I wasn't prepared for. Uh, and even our employees, some of the clerical uh employees, we offer them, would you like to go on the Trump Village West payroll? Or do you want to go on the Douglas Elman payroll? Because there is uh a desire to stay away from the name. They don't want that name on their resume, which is um, you know, some people go to visit Lincoln's log cabin, uh, and some people don't want the name on their payroll. So you got to deal with it. Has have has has the board ever considered rebranding under a different name? We we did. Uh, I mean, this came up when um our renewal is in April, our insurance renewal is in April. So when uh the when there was an arraignment of uh of Donald uh Trump uh in April of uh 23, we were about to uh renew our insurance policies, and we had one insurance uh uh company refused to do business with us. Then we went to a secondary insurance company, they refused to issue us a policy. It wasn't about money, it wasn't about risk, it was just that they did not want to have anything to do with the Trump name. At that point, they reached out to the board and said, listen, we're a couple hundred thousand dollars. Our insurance policy at this time is about 2.2 million uh annual basis. Before it was a little bit less, but we were dealing with a couple hundred thousand dollar difference. And I said, let's let's let's rebrand, let's rebrand. And the board said, Why don't you go back and see? Maybe we'll have to do it, just simply for the fact that you know you could we got to do what's right for the shareholders. We're stewards of their money. We went back, we said, can we change the name? We'll we'll change it to pick a name, whatever name you want. And they said, No, you're still going to be known as formerly uh associated, and they refused to issue us insurance policy, even if we changed our names. Um, however, you know, a lot of the residents still remember when Donald Trump was in the management office and uh he was in charge of he was a young gentleman at that time, gentleman, a kid, 18, 17, and he was responsible to make sure that all the stoves were working. So if you have a thousand, one thousand one hundred and forty-four stoves and it was working, he is the one to thank. And if they weren't working, I guess he was the one to complain with. But a lot of the older residents still remember him, and he was their go-to person, making sure all the new stoves were working, pilot lights running. He was turning a lot the pilot lights.

SPEAKER_03: 26:38

So that's a little bit of history there.

SPEAKER_00: 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 26:41

And and Fred built the complex, his father.

SPEAKER_00: 26:44

Fred Fred built uh the complex. There's a famous picture from New York Times, uh, where uh him and Donald are standing on the roof of the the complex after it was built. They were looking at some building plans or something like that. But it's a New York Times uh picture that always seems to make rounds when they discuss uh uh discuss his involvement with the project.

SPEAKER_03: 27:06

Okay, but before we get to our fun segment, not that this wasn't fun, um just you know, this this is your invitation to to embellish and tell us, you know, what have been your highlights as general manager? What are you most proud of?

SPEAKER_00: 27:21

You've got to be always careful when you discuss your accomplishments because you don't want to uh come off as arrogant or bragging. Uh I I think some of the uh over the 10 quarter the 10 years that I've been the general manager and a couple of years when I was on the board, uh the greatest accomplishment has really been to keep uh this complex mortgage free, uh mechanically and free, but it'll start with mortgages. Uh we're dealing with a complex that is uh has, according to the Department of Finance, a value of over a billion dollars. It's very easy to be able to go out there and just take out a mortgage uh for 30% of the value. So we're talking about hundreds of millions to be able to take it out. We've been able to run the complex uh without taking out a mortgage. We've been able to budget and schedule uh capital improvement projects that are required by the city, such as uh elevator upgrades, uh local law 11, the facade work. And obviously now we're trying to figure out what to do with local law 97, as um um the new mayor uh has uh made it a point that he is going to keep demanding. So that's been uh the greatest budgetary uh uh uh accomplishment for the resident shareholders. I think what uh um my stewardship has been able to do is to have a very responsive team, um, both from the maintenance department uh as well as uh from uh the office staff to be able to in um a very systematic and uh fast uh response time uh answer residents' concerns, complaints, get the paperwork out. And uh that that's uh uh it that you know the doubles in the details, and and I think that uh we took a a complex that uh was not computerized and large uh and unmovable and made it very uh very responsive.

SPEAKER_03: 29:24

I just again uh so I I can say it so you won't sound arrogant. If you're running a complex mortgage-free uh at this level, um that's that that's an incredible accomplishment, and that that bodes extremely well for the co-op financially. And again, and the family ties and community feeling that you you seem to be portraying makes it in a very uh unusual and special place. So congratulations on that.

SPEAKER_00: 29:55

Thank you. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03: 29:57

So uh Rich, this is where your time to shine. Uh Rich gets to do the fun stuff. Um I put Investor Brooklyn in the notes. You can do whatever you want, Rich.

SPEAKER_01: 30:07

All right, so I have a few questions. So first question is what are the great attractions in the area? You got Nathan's, you got the beach, you got the aquarium. What else? You got net costs? Not that I'm plugging them, but I I love Russian blackbread and some of the Russian products. Um, what's great out there? What else is good that's in the neighborhood that's unique to the area that you wouldn't find in another borough?

SPEAKER_00: 30:29

Oh, I I think that if you want to have um uh a true Russian night out, you gotta go to Tatiana's on the boardwalk.

SPEAKER_01: 30:39

I've been there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:40

So although, although I'm I I'm a friend and I don't I don't, you know, we're not doing free plugs here. I think that if you uh visit Tatiana's on the boardwalk in the summertime, there's nothing out there like sitting and having uh lunch uh while getting uh uh uh fresh uh sea breeze uh on your face. And if you uh want to have uh a good time out at night, then you gotta go at night and see the uh uh Vegas uh style reviews, which is just uh amazing. So uh for the local uh Russian flavor, I I highly recommend that restaurant. And that location is just spectacular to be able to be on the boardwalk, on the Regalman boardwalk and uh enjoying it. It it's it's uh it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 31:28

What would you say is the the greatest challenge um as far as having a whole community within a very big complicated city? Is it the regulations? Is it uh managing uh people and emotions and neighbor issues? Um is it just organization or is it something else?

SPEAKER_00: 31:56

The the hard part to explain to people when they move into a vertical environment is that they have to understand that um it's uh you're you're living in maybe an analogy is in the kibbutz. Everybody has to uh understand that you gotta be able to to get along and be respectful of your neighbor. And uh uh although management tries to help uh and remind folks that if you wake up at two o'clock in the morning and decide to put a picture up on your wall, it may not be the best idea because when you start uh hitting cement uh in the middle of the night, it travels three floors up, three floors down. Um, so it's uh I'm always faced with the issue of neighbors not realizing that you are living close, you are living in a very dense population. Um, and uh calling 311 at times does not get you anywhere. So that is just the challenge of uh just having a very large building with everybody thinking that they can do whatever they want in their apartments.

SPEAKER_03: 33:05

I think that transcends cultures.

SPEAKER_01: 33:09

Is there a Trump village east anywhere?

SPEAKER_00: 33:12

There, well, so across the street is is is our sister building. Uh, they decided not to call themselves East. Uh so the the name of the complex is our complex is Trump Village Section 4 Inc. So when we became uh private, we decided to change it, change the name and adopt the DBA Trump Village West. Uh they became Trump Village Estates. Uh, we felt that it was a little bit more like of a penal colony to have uh Section 4 Inc., you know, and it just it was it was did not uh that was not inviting, we would say. So there is an ease, there's a sister uh building across the street, which consists of even more units, 1600 units. Um, but they do have a mortgage. So uh okay.

SPEAKER_03: 33:59

Igor, thank you very much. That that was really interesting and I think enlightening. I mean, we learned a lot about uh certainly your community and uh where to go to eat uh when we go to the beach in Brooklyn. Thank you for joining us, and I would encourage everybody who's listening to tune in for this, obviously, this episode and future episodes. And we oh, Igor, one more thing. I want to officially congratulate you because you you are now officially a co-op and condo insider. So congratulations.

SPEAKER_00: 34:28

Well, I I appreciate you know, this is inside baseball. So for for those folks who uh love uh co-op and condo uh content, I I thank you for putting this podcast on. And uh this is very uh near and dear to me. So I'm very glad and uh appreciative of being part of it.

SPEAKER_03: 34:47

Yeah, we are we are uh the podcast is growing, obviously a niche audience, but it is the only t podcast of this type covering this space. And uh we're very happy to bring this information to the call on condo community. So please, everybody, hope you enjoyed this episode and we look forward to hearing speaking to you in future episodes. Thank you very much.