The Co-op and Condo Insider
The Co-op & Condo Insider is your trusted source for expert commentary led by advocates within New York City’s co-op and condo world. Each episode offers insights into the challenges, news, and stories that shape a community making up more than 20% of this great city’s residents.
The Co-op and Condo Insider
From Fire To Settlement: How Public Adjusters Protect Co-ops And Condos
Think the building’s master policy will automatically replace your marble kitchen and motorized shades after a fire? In many New York co-ops and condos, that assumption is where trouble starts. We break down how coverage really works and why the decisions made before a loss often determine whether you are back in your home quickly or tied up in disputes for years.
In this episode, we sit down with CEO & Co-Founder of United Public Adjusters & Appraisers Philip Maltaghati and walk through the claims process from the very first phone call to the final settlement. Philip explains how he reads insurance policies alongside proprietary leases, bylaws, and offering plans to figure out what the master policy truly covers and what responsibility falls on the unit owner. He also demystifies replacement cost versus actual cash value, explains how co-insurance penalties quietly shrink payouts, and discusses the growing trend of condos shifting interior coverage onto owners. We talk about why first-party claims usually move faster than pursuing a neighbor’s insurer, how late reporting can derail an otherwise valid claim, and why renovations that go far beyond original sponsor finishes often leave owners underinsured.
We also spend time on something that matters just as much as strategy: proof. Philip shares how simple tools like phone videos, doorbell cameras, building CCTV, and 3D scans can capture damage that changes over time and across multiple inspections. We discuss doing remediation the right way to prevent mold and secondary damage, and how creating urgency can help move carriers toward faster payments. From elevator pits to roof exhausts, we cover the hidden paths smoke and water take and why thorough documentation can completely change the outcome of a claim. For boards, we talk about independent valuations, ordinance or law coverage for required code upgrades, and how to navigate renewal shocks without putting the building at risk. For owners, we offer a clear checklist for improvements coverage and temporary housing limits that reflect real-world costs.
If you manage a building or own a renovated unit, this conversation will help you take a hard look at your coverage, sharpen your claims approach, and avoid expensive surprises when something goes wrong. Subscribe, share this episode with your board or neighbors, and leave a review with one question you wish your policy answered clearly.
Many years ago, I had a six-story building had a fire, and the fire started on the top, which means everybody was affected because the water comes down. And it it was really tragic. And it was late in the day and it became into the evening. And uh a couple of uh public adjusters showed up and they started working with people. And the people with um co-op insurance for their own units very often, at least then, had hotel coverage, um, had adjusters out in the next day or two, and the repair started immediately. And the people that had no insurance, and there were a couple, litigated for years.
SPEAKER_02:This is the Co-op and Condo Insider, the podcast dedicated to New York's cooperative and condominium communities. This is your trusted source for the latest insights, strategies, and stories shaping the world of shared housing. You will hear from the people who are leaders in this community. Information and insights you will not hear anywhere else. If you want to stay ahead of the curve, you're in the right place. The views and opinions expressed on this program do not necessarily reflect those of the host or any affiliated individuals or organizations.
SPEAKER_01:Hello and welcome to the Co-op and Condo Insider, where we explore the real-world issues facing co-ops and condos across New York City with insight expertise and a healthy dose of straight talk. I'm your host, Jeffrey Mazel. I'm a co-op attorney and legal advisor to the President's Co-op and Condo Council. I'm thrilled to be joined by my co-host, Richard Solomon, a seasoned voice in public radio for over 20 years. Richard has taken his listeners around the world to meet experts, newsmakers, and the people making a real difference in our lives. Richard, it's great to have you on the mic with us tonight. Love being here. Love your enthusiasm. We have a really interesting uh guest today, uh, and a really interesting and really difficult topic to understand. And we're hoping Philip will bring clarity to it with Philip Maltagdi, United Public Adjusters and Appraisers. Uh, Philip, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. I'm honored to be here. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so Philip, tell us a little bit about your background and uh tell us about United Public Adjusters and Appraisers. Give us the the short version of the genesis of this incredible business that you've built.
SPEAKER_03:Sure. And it started when I was a real estate appraiser during the subprime market. Uh from there, I pivoted over to United Public Adjusters. And my introductory to the business was um my brother, who's my twin brother, um, who's also my business partner, said to me that uh someone he knows that was looking for help during Hurricane Katrina. And Hurricane Katrina was a major disaster during 2005. And so his the request was can you go out there and assess damages? Clearly, coming from the real estate appraisal world is different than assessing damages, even though we have some uh war stories I can tell you as far as the experiences when you do encounter large buildings and what you encounter, you know, as far as walking into them. Um, but Hurricane Katrina was a very unique opportunity. My partner Michael went down there. Within two weeks, he came back. He was exposed to mold, he saw buildings split in half. We talked about the industry as a whole, and from there we did some research and we realized that there was a void in the market. Not many public adjusters existed in New York State to advocate for policyholders for both residential and commercial property owners, and that was kind of our segue into the industry.
SPEAKER_01:So I I think one of the uh great mysteries uh and and as a co-op attorney and Richard as a litigator, we deal with public adjusters, but it's hard to explain. And uh, and I literally had a meeting with public adjusters in the last week. What is a public adjuster and what is their role when there's a loss?
SPEAKER_03:Public adjusters are licensed by the Department of Financial Services. There's three types of adjusters that represent there's three types of adjusters industry. You have public adjusters who advocate for policy holders, you have adjusters that represent the insurance company. Now there's two types of adjusters that represent the insurance industry. Those are independent adjusters and staff adjusters, but it's a very small field as far as what our role is involved. Uh our role is to read the insurance policy, interpret it, um, report the claim, inspect the damages, estimate the damages, present it, negotiate it. There's a lot of negotiations that happen with an insurance company. And you know, when you have a fire water damage, the claim isn't just the first, you claim isn't really based on your first inspection. There's about three to four inspections that follow, and constantly you'll see that the damages may evolve to be something bigger than what you originally saw. And then obviously the scope and price increases. You know, while the insurance company, on the other hand, they're probably taking one inspection, and if they don't get out there from day one, they may not, they may not see the level of damages that our team saw if we were called in the beginning. As far as the as far as later on goes, when we receive an insurance company estimate, and let's say the estimate is$100,000, and let's say the Coopacondo building is at a million dollars in damages, from there we generate a list of differences as well as supporting documentation as to why the estimate should be revised. So there's a lot of back and forth negotiations. The goal is to present your claim in the best light possible with a lot of photographic evidence of videos. In fact, I'll take it a step further. Uh, what we've done in the last five years with technology nowadays, we are asking, if we are if we're in a co-opacondo building or an apartment building, uh, we're asking the tenants to secure their footage. We go one by one each tenant securing their what they have on their phone. Um, two, we get their ring cameras off their doors. And then uh obviously beyond that, we're going straight to the elevated cameras and the common hallway cameras. Our team then takes all of the footage and they snip all the footage to make still shots and put a PDF together to properly present the damages at the time of the loss, especially if a fire, you know, when a fire happens at one o'clock in the morning, the firemen may not leave for another three hours, right? And there's smoke that's lingering. And then, you know, if you work in New York City as much as I do, the New York City firemen do a great job. And what they do is they open up the common hallways doors, they go to the roof, they install their fans, and they vent all the smoke all throughout the roof. When it heads up the stairwells, unfortunately, the smoke escapes into the common hallways of every other floor, causing other ensuing damages. So our job is to document the damages uh with as much evidence as we can. Um, obviously, nowadays we have a Mataport, if you're familiar with Mataport, Mataport is a 3D scan, similar to another company. And every job we do is getting a Mataport scan and sometimes for Mataport scans. The more documentation, the better you are at getting a good settlement. It's all about proving the damages.
SPEAKER_01:So when you get a call, uh let's say um I guess for purposes of this discussion, we'll use a call-up and comment. Do you get a call? I guess it would be either from a board member or a managing agent. We had a fire last night in the building in one of the apartments. What what's the first thing you guys do?
SPEAKER_03:First thing we do is uh we'll it will do an interview with the board member or the prop manager on the phone because we want to know what resources we need. Um, from there, we're asking about the insurance policy. And then from there, once it's made safe, we're doing an inspection.
SPEAKER_01:Uh do you review the insurance policies and and and interpret it for them to give them an idea what the coverage looks like?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, that's the first thing we do. So with we do get called in by a lot of property manager companies or condo co-op boards directly. We want to read the insurance policy, we want to see all the coverages they have, the exclusions, the limitations. Maybe they have replacement costs coverage, maybe they only have actual cash value coverage. You know, maybe there's a limitation only on the roof. Recently we had a claim where the roof um only had actual cash value.
SPEAKER_01:So can you just explain what actual cash value means?
SPEAKER_03:Sure, it's one of the most common conversations. Education 101 is important for insurance. So actual cash value. So if something costs$1,000 to replace, and that is considered replacement cost value, well, the insurance company is going to want to know the age and condition of the item. From there, they can apply depreciation. So sometimes something could be 30 years old, and the insurance company may try to apply a heavy depreciation, but depreciation is also based based on condition, right? So something could be old, but could be in great condition if it's well maintained. So our job is to present the claim to the insurance company about how it was maintained, because if you have an actual cash value policy on the roof in this example, if the roof repair is$300,000 and the insurance company is going to apply 50% of depreciation, which means you're only getting a check for$150,000 based on the policy you purchased, and you can't recover that depreciation. It's not recoverable because you don't have replacement cost coverage. You're going to want to make sure that you present the case that it was maintained. So when was the last time the roof was updated or maintained or coded or sealed? How often are the inspections? You know, so the job is to not only present the damages, but also talk about the maintenance history of the items so we can make sure that the depreciation is makes sense for the damages that we're claiming.
SPEAKER_01:So if a if a client has actual cost value, your role is even more critical.
SPEAKER_03:You hit it right on the head. In fact, it's sad, number one, if you do have a co-op and condo building that hasn't a full actual cash value policy on the building, that's rare. I've seen it on specific components, but the specific components will be on something that's major. It could be a roof, it could be a generator, it could be your boilers, things that cost a lot of money. You want to pay attention and make sure that you have full replacement cost value on high-ticket items because that's where you're gonna potentially come up with a potential assessment for the call of Condo board, and they're gonna be upset that no one reviewed the policy prior to taking on that policy.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so you you review the pol, you interview the um uh the the the uh either the sharehold um the shareholder or the um manager or the board member, you review the insurance policy, and then what other documents in a co-op and condo setting would you normally review as part of your initial investigation?
SPEAKER_03:For a co-op, we're looking for the proprietary lease. You know, otherwise, we're looking for offering plans, bylaws, uh amendments. You know, for the offering plan, we'd like to look and see what the original finishes were that the sponsor sold them.
SPEAKER_01:So why is that important?
SPEAKER_03:It's important because when you have a loss by fire or water, the insurance company is going to want to go to that repair after a fire section of your of your documents. And it may say, we will repair replace what was initially installed by the sponsor. And so it's important to know. And you may, in effect, you know, you go back to the 70s and 80s and I read these proprietary leases and these offering plans, and you go through it, and the original specs were from ICA cabinetry, right? Uh, or or or plaster. And then now you're in 2026 and you're looking at these apartments and they're fully renovated. You're talking about marble or you're talking about custom cabinetry, you're talking about home automation systems, motorized shades, custom, custom flooring. These are things that are way beyond the initial installed from the sponsor.
SPEAKER_01:So, where where are those covered? How would those be covered?
SPEAKER_03:So that would be if if the if the governing documents state that the master policy is only covering what was initially installed by the sponsor, well, then the other policy would be the unit owner itself, the shareholder or the unit owner. And so it's important to make sure a lot of unit owners, the the big uh issue that I see in this industry is that you know we get called into a loss and we'll speak to and let's make believe the unit's$2 million and you know market value, and I'll say, please send me a copy of policy, and I'll see$50,000 in coverage on the building, uh$50,000 of contents at$50,000 in temporary housing. Meanwhile, this is a$2 million unit that if you were to rent it, maybe$10,000 to$15,000 a month, you know, if you're displaced to go find something comparable, uh, which means they're being shortchanged on temporary housing coverage. And then two, fifty thousand dollars the renovations that either their prior unit owner or prior shareholder made or they made. And so what's going on in the industry right now is we're seeing a lot of there's not enough insurance education out there to talk about, you know, the importance of not being underinsured and knowing that what you should be insuring versus what the building should be insuring under the master policy.
SPEAKER_01:So so why don't we use this opportunity as a learning moment for shareholders? Explain what the shareholder policy is, what it covers. And I I think you said why it's important, but maybe wrap it into the your discussion now.
SPEAKER_03:I would, you know, look, you know, the best way to describe it if uh going back to an interview process, if someone reached our office, the first thing I say to them is, have you done any renovations in the last 10 years or since you purchased the unit? And of course, they'll go and say, I changed cabinetry, I go to my bathroom, I changed my flooring, okay, and I said, How much money did it cost you 10 years ago? And they'll say$500,000. And I'm like, okay, well, inflation, times have changed, things are a lot more expensive. Contractors' insurance is expensive. So you want to carry the enough insurance to cover the cost of your renovations. Um, that's just simple conversation. If you want to go deeper, that's me going to interpretation of the bylaws and interpreting, you know, that. And because sometimes I'll read a policy and especially the newer condos. Like we had two new condos that had losses in Brooklyn. And I read those policies, and master policy was hands off. They had no coverage whatsoever for the inside of those units.
SPEAKER_01:Is that unusual?
SPEAKER_03:It it's the new, it's a norm, it's a new norm that's going to happen. So most sponsors nowadays are changing the bylaws where the master policy, because insurance premiums are going through the roof, they want unit owners to have insurance on the units, which of course they should have insurance to begin with for their improvements, but they want to make sure that at this point that the unit owners are covering their losses individually and they have enough insurance to do so. So it's up to the consumer, the unit owner, the shareholder, uh, to actually purchase insurance.
SPEAKER_00:Notice as a lawyer who does a lot of litigation in the field of property damage, the underinsurance and no insurance thing leads to all kinds of litigation. What the other problem is, is that nobody realizes how much it costs to advance that litigation. So you have somebody who has a loss and they're underinsured, vastly underinsured. Let's say you're a professional, your equipment is not insured enough, or you've been in business for 30 years, like you said, and what you needed as a certain kind of, let's say, medical professional, you only needed 10 things. Now you need 50 things, you know, and uh imaging equipment, everything is much more advanced. Your policy didn't keep up with the changes. A lot of times people's insurance brokers don't want to keep increasing the premiums because there's a lot of pressure to keep that down. So what happens is there's no discussion between the broker, the client, and then what happens is there's a loss. There's not enough insurance, even if you get a public adjuster like yourself. How much is the loss? Three million. How much coverage do we have? 200,000. Now we have to then advance the litigation. And then, well, who's gonna pay for litigation?
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, just just just um my living example of this is many years ago I had a six-story building had a fire, and the fire started on the top, which means everybody was affected because the water comes down, and it was really tragic, and it was late in the day, and it became into the evening, and uh a couple of uh public adjusters showed up and they started working with people, and the people with um co-op insurance for their own units very often, at least then, had hotel coverage, um, had adjusters out in the next day or two, and the repair started immediately. And the people that had no insurance, and there were a couple, litigated for years, and um their apartments remained un you know, uh remained uh uninhabitable for an extended period of time, and that becomes another part of the claim. So the uh the idea is have what's called, I guess it's called first party benefits, correct? Philip?
SPEAKER_03:Correct.
SPEAKER_01:Because if because if you have to sue somebody, uh the co-op board or your neighbor, that would be third party. That then you have to prove negligence, and it is um a much different situation. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:You know, jumping on that same topic, uh, many people who do reach out, they'll say, um, we may need your services in a couple months. Right now, we're trying to see if upstairs insurance company will pay for our damages. Uh, and it's so often. And Richard talked about it. Um, and um, you know, so I say, okay, well, what happened upstairs? Let's say the pipe broke upstairs um and it flooded out our apartment. I said, well, first, obviously, you have you, it's a third-party claim, which obviously our firm can't handle third-party claims. You didn't mention the word first party. We're meant for first party claims. And I said, You gotta have a contractor, in your case, if you're handling it on your own, present the claim to the upstairs insurance company and see what they say. But it could take months for a liability adjuster from the upstairs insurance company to even respond. And they may say that we're not accepting coverage. And then what's happening is that this potential client then makes the repairs, and then they say, I want to put a claim in for my own insurance company now. We then, well, I said, well, if you put the claim to your insurance company, they may try to deny your claim for late reporting now because they didn't have an opportunity to inspect your damages. So, you know, you can't, it's kind of tough when you have when you live in when you have collective living and and water losses happen. You want to put your carrier on notice, obviously. If you're able to collect from another carrier, great, but that may ultimately result in them declining that responsibility, and then you're left with dealing with a first party claim, which is what we do for a living. Um, yeah, but you know, as far as being underinsured, uh and having No insurance. Firm just got another loss the other day in New York City, another high rise. And in fact, where the actual loss originated has no insurance. There was construction going on in the apartment. They had just did a major renovation. The contractor has insurance, but the unit owner doesn't. And so our team reviewed the uh the documents and the they they owe what's initially installed by the sponsor, but there is a major renovation in that apartment that does not match from the 1970s. So that unit owner is going to have to eat that loss. Of course, hire an attorney, right? To go after the contractor for the difference. But there's a lot of underinsuring or no insurance in this industry. And it's not just New York State. Uh we handled Pacific Palisades wildfires in January. I can't tell you how many people thought they had the right insurance. And their story in California is no different than New York or any of the state I work in. You know, going back to price per square foot, a lot of insurance brokers would say the price per square foot for this building is$250 a square foot. I'm like, what year was that$250 a square foot? Um, because no one could rebuild. And unfortunately, you're gonna love this part. And this goes back to Coopicondo or any commercial policy, is co-insurance. Uh many boards are not reading their policies, and there's a co-insurance requirement. So I have this claim right now going on, it's a 90% co-insurance requirement. They were required to carry$20 million of insurance on the building. Um, the damage are about$5 million, and the insurance company is holding is uh penalizing my client by a million dollars out of the$5 million settlement because they didn't carry enough insurance overall for the building. So um reading your policy um and knowing what to look for, and if I had to give you the short list, it would be do you have a co-insurance requirement? Are you properly valued on a per square foot basis? Do you know what do you have replacement request coverage? And if you're an older building, do you have ordinance of law coverage? Because what if you have to bring your building to code? Something happened, like adding a fire sprinkler system to the building, adding an elevator, you know, making something ADA compliant, you know, change the handrails.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I I had to learn the hard way about firematics because some of the disputes in litigation are well, what was the actual who's really at fault? Because that's always a question, too. Was it was it because this, or was it because of that? Was it behind this wall? Did it start over there? And that affects whose insurance gets hit. Or and then that becomes a big thing too. So I've had to learn all about fire matics and deal with fire people to explain the origins and causes of fires and then to figure out where things happen. Because then you have the battle of experts. No, it started here. No, it started there. No, it was from the renovation, no, it was from a it was an overloaded uh power stick. And then that answer is like a million-dollar question, because if it's this answer, it goes this way, and if it's that answer, it goes that way. And then you have very very different outcomes based on those answers.
SPEAKER_01:So Philip, uh just uh in further into what uh Richard just asked, so part of the public adjuster's job obviously is to uh interpret, as you said, the buy the mostly the proprietary lease. We'll use that. Uh we use the cop example to to to help give clarity, I'll call it, to who's responsible for this loss.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you know what? We can educate our client on what how we interpret it. Unfortunately, the insurance company on the other side likes to interpret it a different way.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, but but I'm saying, but you you you'll give them guidance on that on that issue.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so once we get called, we're giving guidance on interpretation of the insurance policy to the governing documents for the building. And three, we do an inspection of the building without even being hired because we want to size up the claim. And then what we do is we send the board or management company a full detailed list of everything we saw on a high level. Of course, we're we're there for the first inspection, things can change. So at least they know on a high level how to manage the building. Uh, because a lot of questions happen when you have a fire. This, you know, there's tenants complaining and their units are being flooded. You got there could be a fatality in another apartment. There could be 10 fire investigators, as Richard said, when the cause and origin investigators come out there, each insurance company has their own cause and origin expert trying to figure out the cause of fire. So they're gonna have a joint inspection. These are all things that we quarterback to make sure that we represent and advocate for our client to kind of get out of the first three weeks of the fire, in essence, um, is just making sure all the parties did their inspections, all the experts saw the damages, we're all estimating it, and then we're communicating uh properly behind the scenes, whether it's uh through phone calls or emails, sharing estimates and reports.
SPEAKER_01:We will you do legwork such as going into individual apartments?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so our firm handles unit owners and boards.
SPEAKER_01:I'm saying for the boards, let's say let's say 20 apartments were affected. Would you go into would the public adjuster go into each one of those apartments?
SPEAKER_03:We do that every day, 100%. That's uh so if a loss happens in 4C, we're checking the entire C line, we're checking the adjacent A and B for water. Uh we're we're seeing how the building uh ventilation system was built because obviously smoke rises. We're going to the roof, we're checking the exhaust vents. Uh, we're checking the elevator room where all the smoke would travel above the cab straight up there. Um, we're checking every crevice because smoke and fire, it travels where it wants to go. And then on top of that, you have water. Remember, fireman's water is at 150 pounds of pressure, right? This isn't like soft water. This is 150 pounds of pressure coming out, putting out a fire. It goes where it wants to. And if you have a concrete deck building, it just slides across. If it's a wood joist building, you're gonna have typically have a lot more damage if it's a wood-joist building. Most of the New York City buildings that we're dealing with are wood-joist, which you're getting a lot more damage than a traditional newer, modern concrete construction.
SPEAKER_01:Do you deal with the engineers, the fire department, and other third-party professionals on behalf of your clients?
SPEAKER_03:We do. So if New York City issues a full vacate or a partial vacated order on the building or on the individual unit where the loss occurred, um, we then obviously have to understand what that order is asking for and make sure that we're properly educating our clients what that order means. And then at the same time, estimating the damages and presenting the urgency to the insurance company. When you have a claim, it's all about creating urgency to the insurance company because unfortunately, you're nothing but a number, right? There's a lot of claims in New York State. You just want to make sure that there's an urgency put behind the claim so you can be the first one to get the checks so you can get back and moving and start hiring those vendors.
SPEAKER_01:What about what about um uh a remediation, like uh emergency remediation? Is that done? Is that a task the public adjuster would normally handle?
SPEAKER_03:So when most co-op and condo buildings, the management companies have rapports with remediation companies. Uh maybe it's set pricing they have or or whatnot. And so remediation companies, when we get brought on board, our job is to make sure that the remediation company is properly documenting, but also properly remediating. Um, if something is soaking wet, we want to properly document it because for the client who we represent, we want to make sure something's being removed, replaced, and repaired. If something is not properly documented by a remediation company, you could be leaving money on the table because it wasn't properly assessed. So having us as a uh as an extension of the team, we make sure that everyone works well together to make sure that the claim is processed efficiently and quickly and make sure that number one, it's a dry, it's a dry, you're in a dry building, it's remediated, there's no mold conditions. You know, what happens if you let water sit there after a water fire loss, it only causes further damages. We want the building's remediation company to act quickly by remediating the damages. Of course, never compromise the scene, allow the insurance company to investigate, take a lot of photos, take a lot of videos, but obviously do what's in the best interest of the building so you don't have secondary damages.
SPEAKER_01:So we're starting to wrap up here. So I general rule of thumb, another teaching moment here. What would you tell a co-op board member or managing agent when do you 100% need a public adjuster? Rule of thumb.
SPEAKER_03:If it's a large claim, um and what is the definition of a large claim? I think if you have a fire, you need a public adjuster. Um, if you have a sprinkler that breaks or a charged waterline that floods and there's multiple units impacted by it, you're gonna need a public adjuster. Um if it's a smaller claim and it's consolidated and more straightforward, you're probably not gonna need one. And if you're grossly underinsured, like the example you mentioned earlier,$200,000 in coverage and have a$2 million in damages, you're probably not gonna need a public adjuster for that. You know, so there's times where you're gonna need one, and some that you may just want to pick their brain and give free advice. My office gives free advice every day. Not every claim do we take on. Um, it's all about education. You want to make sure that the client is informed so they know what they're entitled to under the policy. If the claim is uh sizable enough where they need a public adjuster, we'd love the opportunity for the interview.
SPEAKER_01:So as Richard brought up before, uh there's a question of how would it, how would a co-oper condo or any client of yours, how do you get paid and how is it calculated?
SPEAKER_03:So in New York State, the cap on public adjuster fees is 12.5% of the claim recovery. So what I've seen in the industry on co-op and condo world, again, large complex claims, a lot of moving parts, larger, larger claim. The typical standard fee is between 7 and 10%. Obviously, if it's a smaller claim, typically it's going to be towards the higher of that number, right? Um, and when researching a public adjuster, you want to make sure they have experience in co-op and condos or any large complex claim. Not every public adjuster has experience handling fires, right? Fires are a very complex discussion. You've got, you've got, you've got heat damage, you got smoke, you got soot, you have other types of issues that happen when you have fires. You want to make sure someone has experience with fires. Two, they understand construction, especially New York City construction. You know, is it balloon frame construction? You know, how is the building designed? How did the smoke travel? You know, is the elevator damaged? Did we open up the elevator pit and take a look? Did we look at the top of the cab? Do we go in the elevator room? You know, you want to make sure whoever you're hiring and interview uh is purely New York City focused, meaning they understand construction so well, they understand co-op and condo rules, but they also understand um the pointing finger game uh between unit owner policies and master policies. Happens every day. Everyone's pointing fingers like they're responsible, no, you're responsible. You need someone to kind of clean up the mess and just say, based on this interpretation, this is how I interpret it. Here's our claim for damages. Where's your offer? You know, so you got to be very firm, very assertive, and you got to understand um how insurance operates and how insurance companies think, right? That's important.
SPEAKER_01:Uh plus, I assume your relationships in the insurance industry are deep, which is very helpful for a co-operative board that has no relationships in the insurance industry.
SPEAKER_03:That's actually a good point. Um, if they start seeing your face enough on a on a claim and they know how you handle them, and you handle them uh aggressively and you advocate for your clients professionally, um, they will treat your claim much differently than someone who's trying to figure it out on their own. You know, so you know, it's no different than you hiring an attorney or you hire an accountant. When you hire a professional, these guys have years of experience, and that's what you're looking for, especially during your worst moment, which is disaster, right? When you have a fire or water loss, you're not trying to figure it out. You know, you want you want experience and you want the right settlement and you want it done quickly because money makes things move.
SPEAKER_01:So, Philip, uh you you you run a public adjusted company, but I hear you're also a board president of a co-op in New York City. Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_03:So I was a former board president of a 55-story building in New York City, one of the largest buildings from uh it was built in 1989. Um eight other board members, uh, 30 staff members, two or three on-sites. Um uh obviously a lot of work between uh going through the the back and forth as far as keeping the building up to date, modernized, you know, local laws. It was a lot of work, and I learned a lot. You know, it's funny, being in this business for 20 years representing uh policy holders, and then also being as a board president uh for a short time short term, um, I got to learn how resident managers, property managers, board members think. And I think, you know, and it's it was a really great experience for me, you know. Um, and I, you know, if I give advice to board members is that um sometimes they, you know, you know, they're there's different, there's different, there's different people with different intentions on boards. You know, it's important to know ask questions, be a sponge. You know, if you want to learn about the financials, ask about them. Um, but going back to insurance, I can tell you this from being on the board, and it's a real example I'm gonna give you now. You know, we're we're up for renewal. Um, obviously 55-story building, nobody wants to insure us. And um last minute we're informed, uh, literally probably a week or two before the renewal that we no longer have a hundred million dollar commercial uh umbrella policy. Uh, as you can imagine, uh very upsetting to hear this uh because obviously there's a lot of exposure of such a big building. And at that moment, it was a lot of scrambling to make phone calls to find a company to match that$100 million commercial umbrella policy. And so, you know, again, my insurance expertise, understanding policies, you know, as a board member, you know, insurance is so important to me. And I think as a board member, you want to focus on insurance. You know, do you have the proper replacement quest value? And how do you do that? You can hire an independent company to do a proper valuation, and then at least you have a number and you can present it to your insurance broker and you can really value the building correctly. You know, um, but in that case that I just gave, uh, we were able to do it in a very short period of time. But I can only imagine that God forbid there was a major loss in the building, and the building exposure was more than the standard one million dollar right GL policy, the exposure. And so it's important, you know, as board members, you want to make sure that any liabilities or exposures that that the board could face, you want to make sure that you have the right insurance in place. Um, and so, you know, look, you know, I think real world experience, uh, one thing I learned also is uh, you know, communication. Um, I what I've learned in in the manager world is that property managers are busy every day. They're doing day-to-day operations, they don't have the time to manage chaos from a fire water. And and if you can offer them a way to relieve that stress by advocating for their clients and giving you know weekly phone calls, weekly team calls with their board members, you just become an extension of the team for property manager companies in New York City. You know, and safe people weren't board members, they want to do what's right for the entire uh building as well. They have a fine, they have a financial interest as well in their own units. And so getting the right recovery. But yeah, going back, I had a great experience. Um it uh it was fun. I like to use the word fun if you know where I'm heading with that conversation, being on a board. Um, but I learned a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, this is audio only. So the there were no air quotes with the word fun, just uh for you folks listening out there. All right, Philip, thank you. Uh, really appreciate you shedding a little light, a little clarity on the role of a public adjuster, and and giving us insight into uh really complex issues, but they're the kind of issues sometimes when you learn about it, it's too late. So hopefully, people that have listened to this podcast um took took some important takeaways and hopefully asked the right questions, as you said, and uh maybe uh somebody out there is gonna increase their insurance limits, get insurance, or ask ask the right questions to make sure their apartments and their buildings are protected. Thank you again uh for all of you out there. We look forward to you to speaking to you on the next podcast. This is the co op and condo insider. And Philip, one more thing congratulations. You are now a co op and condo insider. With that, I say goodbye, everybody.